Approximating Parent's and Death from Child's Delayed Birth Record

Approximating a parent's death from the child's delayed birth record probably sounds pretty incredible, but in the search to document the birth's of the children of Julius and Frances Chick Talley, that is exactly what the delayed birth record for Sagasta McConnell Talley enabled me to do.

Frances was living to be a witness

I was also very fortunate that Frances who was born about 1875 was living to validate her son's birth in 1941.  I had documented this family in Union County, South Carolina, on censuses 1910 and 1920. They moved to Fayette County, Pennsylvania sometime after 1930. I was not able to find them on the 1940 Census until now because I had no clue where they were living.

I wanted to find documentation of my great uncle, Julius, and Frances and I was hoping that a delayed birth certificate on one of their children would reveal where the family had moved to.  Frances' maiden name is Chick, the same surname as some of my maternal ancestors.  Even though she is related by marriage, I am curious about who her parents are and if we are related in some way.

"South Carolina Delayed Births, 1766-1900 and City of Charleston, South Carolina Births, 1877-1901," images, Ancestry.com  [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2007. Original data: South Carolina Department of Archives and History, Columbia, South Carolina. (https://search.ancestrylibrary.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=SCbirths&h=2443 : accessed 11 Dec 2013).

Frances, Martha, and Hasco in 1940
Sagasta applied for a delayed birth certificate while living in New Jersey in 1941. Even though I have not located him yet on the 1940 Census, I searched the 1940 Census and found Frances (widowed) living with Ulysses and Martha Gill in Jersey City, New Jersey. Martha was one of the six remaining living children out of 13 total on the 1910 Census.  She must have been named after my 2nd great grandmother and mother to Uncle Julius. Also in the household was Frances' son, Hasco.

"United States Census, 1940," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K4B3-HLV : accessed 06 Jan 2014), Frances Tally in household of Ulysses Gill, Ward 8, Jersey City, Jersey City, Hudson, New Jersey, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 24-208, sheet 61B, family , NARA digital publication of T627, roll 2407.

From there I also discovered what I think is the Social Security Death Index for Frances who lived to the age of 94 (May 1969), however, this will need to be confirmed.  I am hoping this will reveal who her parents are.

Along with Sagasta's mother being a witness on the delayed birth certificate, a woman named Gertrude Sims of Union County also verified information about his birth. Sims is another ancestral name on my maternal side. 

Cousin fun on Facebook 

I could not find a death record for Julius.  Amazingly, my cousin Rolanda has also felt inspired to search for more information on this family. She is a great researcher, and has always been able to find things I did not know. Even though she is asking if I knew anything about Hasco C. Talley who I discovered living in Newark, she reveals that members of this family lived in New York. Ten years between censuses can cause you to miss important information like that. I am excited that she has also found the name of Hasco's wife and their burial site. She even shared the dates of his enlistment in the army.  I know she would have eventually looked in the 1940 Census for Hasco.  I am just glad she asked me so that we could put all of this together. What fun!

I wonder if Julius is buried there?  I cannot really go by the age at last birthday on the delayed death certificate because it says Julius was 42 when he died.  I know that cannot be true because I found him when he was 53 years old on the 1930 Census.  So we need to figure out if Julius died in New York (if he even lived there) or New Jersey.

So many clues are coming to the surface that I will need to review each one individually.  I am finally pleasantly overwhelmed by all the information accessible through historical records online. I cannot weight until Rolanda weighs in on this.  At any rate, I do not think it is a coincidence that Rolanda has been researching the same branch of the family at the same time and also asked me about Hasco whom I just discovered.  We have been searching this family for over 15 years. Something tells me she is about to discover living cousins. 

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Born prior to 1915 in SC? Try Delayed Birth Records

1900 Census showing Lewis and Arie Anna Vance and family¹

Two sets of my 2nd great grandparents lived near each other in Abbeville County, South Carolina between 1870 and 1880, and their children intermarried leaving me with several double cousins.  Lewis, the son of Andrew and Jane Smith Johnson married Arie Anna Vance, the daughter of Beverley and Matilda Dunlap Vance. Most of their children were born before 1900. Lewis Johnson died young, and Arie Anna moved her family to Asheville, North Carolina.

Birth and death certificates can be used to learn where the parents were living when the children were born.  I try to determine the place of birth for each child knowing that there may exist the possibility of finding other types of documentation on ancestors among local records. The Johnson children were all born before birth certificates were recorded in South Carolina, so I was happy to have the option of searching delayed birth certificates.

Delayed birth certificate of Walter Reed Johnson²

I actually found one of their children, Walter Reed Johnson, whose delayed birth certificate was filed 21 February 1944.  He was living in Piedmont, West Virginia.  This is the first family member I have documented in West Virginia. So this opens up a new area to research.

The information on a delayed birth record is only as accurate as the memory of the person providing the information.  It does help that there are other sworn witnesses.  According to this record, Walter was born in Cokesbury, Abbeville, South Carolina in 1893.  Four years later, Cokesbury became part of Greenwood County.  I have several branches of the family who would actually have lived in both counties, so there is no way around me having to research both counties. Timelines help me to know which county to research during any particular event.

An extensive study of census records has helped me to be able to recognize people on records that I would otherwise overlook.  The sworn witnesses on this record were Mason and George Goggins, and while it says they were friends of the family, a Samuel Goggins married into the Johnson family.  These witnesses were actually extended family adding credibility to the details given.

Another great discovery from this record is the age at death for both Lewis and Arie Anna.  I have never been able to find death records or cemetery information for them. Assuming the age at death is accurate, I can add the year of birth given on the 1900 US Census to approximate the year of death for both. Perhaps this will help me determine the location where they are buried.

Lewis and Arie Anna Johnson

Name	Birth (1900 Census)	Age at Death	Approx. Year of Death
Lewis Johnson	1865	43	1908
Arie Anna Vance Johnson	1865	65	1930

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^1.                  "United States Census, 1900," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-13033-113188-96?cc=1325221&wc=M94B-388:1274890914 : accessed 17 Dec 2013), South Carolina > Greenwood > ED 72 Cokesbury Township Cokesbury town; citing NARA microfilm publication T623.

^2.                  "South Carolina Delayed Births, 1766-1900 and City of Charleston, South Carolina Births, 1877-1901," images, Ancestry.com  [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2007. Original data: South Carolina Department of Archives and History, Columbia, South Carolina. (https://search.ancestrylibrary.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=SCbirths&h=2443 : accessed 11 Dec 2013).

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Piecing Together the Past with Delayed Birth Certificates

In one sitting today, I was able to clear up several research challenges that I have struggled with for several years.  I had a few minutes after helping a patron during my shift at the Greenwood County Library, Lawrence Room, so I searched the Ancestry.com collection, South Carolina Delayed Births, 1766-1900 and City of Charleston, South Carolina Births, 1877-1901 to glean what I could to help me resolve the following challenges:

1.  I have been unable to locate some of the children of my 2nd great grandparents, Andrew Johnson and Jane Smith Johnson of Abbeville County, South Carolina.  I supposed they had moved away since they never turned up on any censuses that I searched after 1900.  One of the children I have searched for was Robert Johnson.

2.  The couple, Lewis Johnson and Arianna Vance Johnson, are both related to me.  Being my great uncle and great aunt, their parents were my 2nd great grandparents, Andrew and Jane (above) and Beverley Vance and Matilda Dunlap Vance.  In order for me to be learn more about my ancestors, I must research their children.  The problem is that most were born between 1880 and 1900 leaving no available census to access.  

3.  Julius L. Talley of Union County, South Carolina was the son of my 2nd great grandmother, Martha Talley.  He was married to  Frances Elizabeth Chick, and they moved away sometime after the 1920 or 1930 US Census was taken.  Consequently, I could not find a record of death for Frances or Julius.

Delayed birth records helped to resolve these challenges for me. Over the next couple of posts I will proceed to explain how.

Robert E. Johnson

You can imagine how difficult it must be to locate someone with such a common name as Robert Johnson. I had pretty much lost all hope of doing so because I did not have any idea where he settled down.  I never found him on the census along with other family members living in South Carolina in either Abbeville or Greenwood County. This also made finding a death certificate impossible as well.

Since I knew he was born before 1900, I hoped I would find a delayed birth record for him.  I decided not even to attempt to search for him using his name.  I only used the first and last names of his parents and the locality, South Carolina.

Delayed Birth Certificate of Robert E. Johnson¹

I never expected to find him documented in Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan.  That seems like a far trek away from family for a man born in the South in 1879.  The birth certificate gives his exact birth, August, 19, 1879.  It says that his parents, Andrew and Jane were born in Lawrence County (actually Laurens County).  Since they would have been born in the 1820's or 1830's, this is a helpful clue in researching their origins.

I discovered Robert must have kept the family bible from South Carolina.  He still had it when he applied for a delayed birth certificate from South Carolina. The Warren County Michigan Deputy County Clerk says he personally examined it and that it looked like an original record.

Perhaps this record is still attached to the original certificate held locally in Columbia, or perhaps there is a copy in Warren County.  I can hardly wait  to see if it gives information about the births of any of his other siblings.  Robert was up in age. Maybe he needed this certificate to apply for Social Security.  

Now, since I know the whereabouts of Robert from this record taken in 1941, I can search for this family on the 1940 Census.  Who knows what I will discover from there.

In the next post, I will share what I learned from a search on parents, Lewis Johnson and Arianna Vance Johnson. Put your e-mail in the box above (top left) to connect so that you can be among the first to receive my next article. 

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^1.        "South Carolina Delayed Births, 1766-1900 and City of Charleston, South Carolina Births, 1877-1901," images, Ancestry.com  [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2007. Original data: South Carolina Department of Archives and History, Columbia, South Carolina. (https://search.ancestrylibrary.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=SCbirths&h=2443 : accessed 11 Dec 2013).

    See also:

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